Nightmare: A Supernatural Episode Review
Apr. 8th, 2008 07:23 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sylvia_bondYou can read my review of the Supernatural episode "Nightmare" at pinkraygun.com. Thank you!
An excerpt:
Sammykins, on the other hand, makes a delicious priest, with his hair Brylcreemed down and his deep, green eyes paving the way for all sinners to find redemption. Oh, were I that sinner in need of saving and Sammy himself would come and wrestle for my soul. (Or wrestle me, come to that, though I have a feeling that my girly powers would be no match for the wrath of God in THOSE muscles.) When they arrive at Max’s house, he seems to know instinctively who needs saving and who he can leave to the tender though religiously inept mercies of Brother Dean. His voice takes on the right tone, his expression is sweet, and no one, and I mean but no one at that wake doubts for a minute that Sam is man of the cloth.
Brothers:
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-04-08 03:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-08 11:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 04:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-15 12:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-08 05:24 pm (UTC)I had, not forgotten, but perhaps not remembered as well as I should have, just how good this episode is and you have made me want to go and watch it again.
Seeing as I have just purchased the limited edition two season box set of SPN, perhaps I shall do just that!
no subject
Date: 2008-04-08 11:49 pm (UTC)I forget too, until I go back and really really watch each one. Which is a pleasure all on it's own, even without the cool discoveries.
Ooooh, a limited edition of season two! What pretty extras does that have on it, I wonder? I just got the regular one, I think.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 06:55 am (UTC)I already had season 1 on proper DVD and season 2 on downloads, but I can't resist a yummy box set, so one of my friends benefited from my purchase by getting my old sets!
no subject
Date: 2008-04-15 12:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-08 06:03 pm (UTC)I've never been one for the Papa was a Bad dad, thing myself, the guy was human and delt with his tradgedy the only way he new how, by falling back on his training as a Marine and hunting for what killed Mary and also preparing his boys to defend themselves. I think the instilling of the "Hunter" lifestyle was somewhat incidental to that, his primary goal was not to loose any more of his family.
Thanks again for sharing.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-08 11:48 pm (UTC)Yeah, Dean...he takes the weight of the world on his shoulders and looks good doing it.
The whole bad dad concept is such a weird one. For some people if you say the slightest bad thing about John, they go off like a scatter bomb. For others, they only HAVE bad things to say. The truth, as it so often is, is somewhere in the middle, I think. (And I never get tired of discussing it either, on account of the character is so complex!)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-08 06:23 pm (UTC)On to the John bit: I've always thought he was a man who made mistakes, but given his background (Marine) and what happened to his family, he made them out of love. Yeah he drank, because that's what manly men do to drown their sorrows, but he wasn't an alcoholic I don't think. This episode is one of the first where Sam grows up a bit and looks beyond his own 'teenage angst' enough to realize what John actually was going through. Up to this point, we've seen John through they eyes of a son who was still thinking like a rebellious teenager and a lot of people don't seem to understand that. We're not getting an unbiased picture of John at all, and yes, he did do some crazy things by hauling them along with him. But he did it because he loved them and was doing the best he knew to protect them. And personally, as a 'latch key' kid myself...it teaches you a lot of things, like independence and learning to think and rely on yourself - good foundations for a later life. Now throw in their childhood and of course there are going to be 'issues', but really? John gave those boys survival skills, and if they didn't love each other, no way would both boys have hugged him so easily when they found him again. Uh, sorry for the rant, but this episode really does show so much more of the relationship.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-08 11:54 pm (UTC)About John. I've contemplated him long and hard, as I'm sure many a fan has done. He simply exudes ambiguity, wherever he goes. And I've heard the idea before that we're getting a biased picture, seeing as most of what we know is through the boys' eyes. However, we do see enough to know that John is not a soft man, he's a former Marine, and wants his kids to be safe, no matter how mean a dad that makes him. (I'm thinking of him ordering Sam to shoot him in the heart, which, really. What kid is going to follow that order?) I think there's no black and white for John, but there's about a million shades of grey. Yes, mistakes out of love. Doing the wrong thing (or the difficult thing or the hard thing) for the right reasons. Definately.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-08 10:06 pm (UTC)To be fair, are there circumstances when Dean could not be considered cute & kissable? Well, okay, I suppose there's dead-eyed and gore-splattered in "Bloodlust", but are there others?
Oh, were I that sinner in need of saving and Sammy himself would come and wrestle for my soul.
The trouble with either of the boys' effectiveness as priests is that one look at them & repentance would be the last thing on my mind...
I still wish Show would give me some indication about this in the dialog or something so I don’t have to worry about it any more.
I want to say that we've seen them leaving a suit shop at some point early on... "Phantom Traveller", maybe? I remember feeling deprived of a montage of them mugging in the dressing room, trying to nail down the right disguise.
But I’d run too if they showed up on my curb like that, wouldn’t you?
Absolutely! I kind of love it when random non-characters react to the boys in ways that anyone with common sense (& lacking the context that so firmly establishes them as good men & our heroes) would.
I think you will not be suprised to hear that I'm still hitching a ride on the "Bad Dad" bandwagon. John Winchester can be, & to my mind is, at once a good man and a bad father. He's a terrifically conflicted & antiheroic & compelling character & I do love him for that, but I don't think I'm ever going to be convinced that his parenting choices were good ones. Though, as you & Sam both point out, they could definitely have been worse.
Dean is at once attentive and brotherly, showing me some nice forearms as he tends to Sam collapsed on the floor... What’s cool about this one is the way that Sam turns to Dean and Dean swings his arm around Sam’s shoulders and hang who is watching them... Dean proudly announces that HE is that one thing, and that while Dean is around, nothing bad can ever happen to Sam.
& if I hadn't already been stupid in love with Dean long before this episode aired, this sequence would have done it for sure. After the rare & elusive "lighthearted goofball", "tender, reassuring big brother" is my favorite flavor of Dean Winchester. Especially garnished as it is here with the "shit-scared-just-under-the-surface" feel of that final expression.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 01:45 am (UTC)Even then...he needs hugging. After being bathed, of course.
The trouble with either of the boys' effectiveness as priests is that one look at them & repentance would be the last thing on my mind...
And mine. And any fangirl out there with taste. What I thought was interesting, the most provocative, really, was not that they looked yummy in Catholic outfits, nor the whole outtakes thing, which was cute. No, what got me somehow, was Sam's expression when he glares at Dean. There was something there in that glare, beyond the normal, "stop it Dean" meaning. And it wasn't that Sam felt he was actually a priest, or that either boy could be expected to meet Catholic standards instantly, but I got the feeling he was really furious!! Or something. You take a look. You'll see.
I remember feeling deprived of a montage of them mugging in the dressing room, trying to nail down the right disguise.
Yes, Phantom Traveller. A cute but never repeated bit of realism there.
Absolutely! I kind of love it when random non-characters react to the boys in ways that anyone with common sense (& lacking the context that so firmly establishes them as good men & our heroes) would.
Max's uncle was no fool. Big black car like that? Sheesh. RUN.
I think you will not be suprised to hear that I'm still hitching a ride on the "Bad Dad" bandwagon. John Winchester can be, & to my mind is, at once a good man and a bad father. He's a terrifically conflicted & antiheroic & compelling character & I do love him for that, but I don't think I'm ever going to be convinced that his parenting choices were good ones. Though, as you & Sam both point out, they could definitely have been worse.
I don't think that you are at least not the way I define it. Bad Dad-ers think John is an ass full stop, and they won't allow for any areas of grey. So if you get on that bandwagon in my mind, you can't deal in the ambiguities of the character. I think John was a bad dad but not a failed parent - which to me means he straddled the line between loving his boys and making bad choices for them. K'kathy said that he sacrificed his boys on the alter of revenge, which sums it up nicely. Yet....the only thing he put before his sons was finding Mary's killer. He did bad things for the right reasons. He screwed up, but he meant well. He put his sons in danger but he taught them to protect themselves. He...but....the list goes on and on. Wondefully so.
& if I hadn't already been stupid in love with Dean long before this episode aired, this sequence would have done it for sure. After the rare & elusive "lighthearted goofball", "tender, reassuring big brother" is my favorite flavor of Dean Winchester. Especially garnished as it is here with the "shit-scared-just-under-the-surface" feel of that final expression.
Stupid in love? Oh I love that expression!!! (I was hard pressed to describe that particular expression on Dean's face. Sometimes I think to hard, and I can't quite manage it.) I think that expression also includes boundless love for Sam, and maybe a little regret too, that the little brother innocence cannot possibly last.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-09 03:45 am (UTC)I actually haven't seen this one in a while, so I guess here's my excuse. I did, however, recently watch "Houses of the Holy" again (ouch, my little geek heart!) & given Sam's revelation in that episode to us & to Dean that he is a praying man, I suppose he could be genuinely pissed here. While he's not necessarily Catholic, I'm pretty comfortable assuming that it's the Judeo-Christian God Sam's praying to & he could easily take Dean's slapdash effort to represent Our Lady of Blatant Aliases as scorn for something that's important to him. Isn't there a similar bit of non-verbal "Dean! This is a church! Show some respect!" in "Hookman"?
Bad Dad-ers think John is an ass full stop, and they won't allow for any areas of grey. So if you get on that bandwagon in my mind, you can't deal in the ambiguities of the character.
Ah, you're right; that's not where I am at all. Show's stock in trade is grey areas & ambiguity & I would not have it any other way.
I think John was a bad dad but not a failed parent - which to me means he straddled the line between loving his boys and making bad choices for them. K'kathy said that he sacrificed his boys on the alter of revenge, which sums it up nicely.
I totally agree that he loved them & I do believe that when he made what I feel are mistakes that he either believed he was doing right by the boys or didn't see that there were any less painful ways to do what he felt he needed to do for them... but love & not meaning to cause any harm aren't always enough.
I really like the altar metaphor, offering up, however unwillingly, their chances at a childhood or a future not blighted by the touch of evil in their past, and his own chance to see them grow into that life, and the very different relationships he could have had with each of his sons.
Stupid in love? Oh I love that expression!!!
It's really the only way to describe both the depths and the ridiculousness of my affection for those boys, especially given how they're, you know, fictional & stuff. Or so I'm told.
(I was hard pressed to describe that particular expression on Dean's face. Sometimes I think to hard, and I can't quite manage it.) I think that expression also includes boundless love for Sam, and maybe a little regret too, that the little brother innocence cannot possibly last.
It is a hard expression to pin down, because there is so much there on his face in that instant before the fade-to-black. Show is very articulate with its silences.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-15 02:59 am (UTC)Yes, when they're in the church and everyone bows their heads to pray, Sam has to nudge Dean to follow suit. Sam's not a controlling type in any other aspect of their lives, I think his personal faith will brook no disrespect, so he gets on Dean's case about it when it comes up. He used to get on Dean's case about disrespecting authority figures (like in the Pilot) but that has long since gone by the wayside.
Ah, you're right; that's not where I am at all. Show's stock in trade is grey areas & ambiguity & I would not have it any other way.
Just watched IMTOD...if I ever thought The Dad was bad, I can't after seeing this one. It happens every time that tear shoots down his face. Help! He's so loving here....loving enough so that Dean thinks he's a demon!
I really like the altar metaphor, offering up, however unwillingly, their chances at a childhood or a future not blighted by the touch of evil in their past, and his own chance to see them grow into that life, and the very different relationships he could have had with each of his sons.
If we blame it all on the YED, there was simply nothing else he could but sacrifice everybody for the greater good. The needs of the many and all that. Still and all, he took the hardest road he possibly could, didn't he. But maybe he felt that if he took anything less than the hardest road (and made his sons do the same), then he might become weak along the way. You know how it is...you can do anything, put up with tons of crap, until someone is nice to you for just one minute. Then you fall apart. Well, I do. Maybe John is the same. He knew he had to be strong and tough and that meant cutting himself off from any normal society.
It's really the only way to describe both the depths and the ridiculousness of my affection for those boys, especially given how they're, you know, fictional & stuff. Or so I'm told.
Says who? Sorry, but they're real. They became real the second Kripke came up with them. And they stay real because we believe. Just like Tinkerbell.
It is a hard expression to pin down, because there is so much there on his face in that instant before the fade-to-black. Show is very articulate with its silences.
Show knows how to use what it's got. Namely Ackles and Padalecki. (Would you believe I still have to look the spelling of that one up!)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-15 03:23 am (UTC)See, even this leaves me conflicted over John. On the one hand, there this sacrifice he's making, with full knowledge & good intention & deeper love than I can fathom. But on the other hand, there's the secret he imparts with his last words, information that's just as likely to destroy both his sons as to save either of them.
If we blame it all on the YED
But where's the fun in that? We already know the YED is (delightfully!) irredeemably evil, so the story gets too simple, less compelling, if every thing that left a mark on the boys can be laid at its feet.
And they stay real because we believe. Just like Tinkerbell.
*Tries & fails hysterically not to imagine the boys in green tutus, dispensing fairydust*
no subject
Date: 2008-04-15 03:31 am (UTC)Agreed. He comforts on the one hand and then lays it on Dean big time with the other. Not to mention the WAY he did this. Remember when the demon possessed him and he got into Dean's space? Well here, he's not possessed, yet he crosses over Dean's body to speak in the other ear, not the near one. It's like there's some vestage in there wanting to control Dean's every move. Or maybe it's just me. He's going to control Dean beyond the grave.....
If we blame it all on the YED
But where's the fun in that? We already know the YED is (delightfully!) irredeemably evil, so the story gets too simple, less compelling, if every thing that left a mark on the boys can be laid at its feet.
Well it's not fun, it's just not. And I wish I had had that statement at the panel when the very nice lady brought up the YED for just this purpose. All I could tell her is aside from the YED, why do we think this, yadda yadda yadda. I could have come across a WHOLE lot more prepared with this statement!
And they stay real because we believe. Just like Tinkerbell.
*Tries & fails hysterically not to imagine the boys in green tutus, dispensing fairydust*
Don't forget to clap your hands.....
no subject
Date: 2008-04-15 04:05 am (UTC)I had always put this down to blocking, so that we get Dean's full profile as he digests the big secret Show was so intent on keeping from us, but when I'm feeling less than charitable toward John, I could definitely see this interpretation.
What I always come back to here is how half-baked the warning is. It doesn't really prepare them for anything. He doesn't seem to have had a theory of what might happen to Sam or how Dean might manage to save him from this ill-defined threat, so I can't understand why he'd say anything at all (except to keep the overarching plot rolling, of course). I think that's why I never quite manage to forgive The Dad for saddling Dean with both the awful possibility of euthanizing his little brother & the burden of hiding that potentiality from Sam.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-17 02:21 am (UTC)I had always put this down to blocking, so that we get Dean's full profile as he digests the big secret Show was so intent on keeping from us, but when I'm feeling less than charitable toward John, I could definitely see this interpretation.
Yes! I've found my opinion changes depending on my mood. When I'm peeved, nothing John did or does could please me. (Well, okay not nothing, wink wink...) And when I'm in a good mood. Yeah, good dad.
What I always come back to here is how half-baked the warning is. It doesn't really prepare them for anything. He doesn't seem to have had a theory of what might happen to Sam or how Dean might manage to save him from this ill-defined threat, so I can't understand why he'd say anything at all (except to keep the overarching plot rolling, of course). I think that's why I never quite manage to forgive The Dad for saddling Dean with both the awful possibility of euthanizing his little brother & the burden of hiding that potentiality from Sam.
It's like he's kissing Dean on the one hand and slamming him down with the other. Yes, I love you son, and I'm sorry I was so hard on you, but you're going to have to very likely kill your brother, whom you love more than life. Kiss/Kick is what I calls it.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-17 04:10 am (UTC)It's also an excellent description of what this instance makes me want to do to John himself!
no subject
Date: 2008-04-24 01:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-14 10:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-15 12:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-15 08:02 am (UTC)After reading your description of the outtakes yesterday I got a little obsessed (I mean, sleeveless priest outfits!) and finally found the outtakes on youtube. Stupid me, should have thought about youtube before. Anyway, I had a blast watching them!
no subject
Date: 2008-04-15 08:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-16 12:12 am (UTC)Hey, can I ask you how you stumbled across me? I'm always interested in how people find the reviews....
no subject
Date: 2008-04-16 10:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-17 01:38 am (UTC)