Sam's expression when he glares at Dean. There was something there in that glare, beyond the normal, "stop it Dean" meaning. And it wasn't that Sam felt he was actually a priest, or that either boy could be expected to meet Catholic standards instantly, but I got the feeling he was really furious!!
I actually haven't seen this one in a while, so I guess here's my excuse. I did, however, recently watch "Houses of the Holy" again (ouch, my little geek heart!) & given Sam's revelation in that episode to us & to Dean that he is a praying man, I suppose he could be genuinely pissed here. While he's not necessarily Catholic, I'm pretty comfortable assuming that it's the Judeo-Christian God Sam's praying to & he could easily take Dean's slapdash effort to represent Our Lady of Blatant Aliases as scorn for something that's important to him. Isn't there a similar bit of non-verbal "Dean! This is a church! Show some respect!" in "Hookman"?
Bad Dad-ers think John is an ass full stop, and they won't allow for any areas of grey. So if you get on that bandwagon in my mind, you can't deal in the ambiguities of the character.
Ah, you're right; that's not where I am at all. Show's stock in trade is grey areas & ambiguity & I would not have it any other way.
I think John was a bad dad but not a failed parent - which to me means he straddled the line between loving his boys and making bad choices for them. K'kathy said that he sacrificed his boys on the alter of revenge, which sums it up nicely.
I totally agree that he loved them & I do believe that when he made what I feel are mistakes that he either believed he was doing right by the boys or didn't see that there were any less painful ways to do what he felt he needed to do for them... but love & not meaning to cause any harm aren't always enough.
I really like the altar metaphor, offering up, however unwillingly, their chances at a childhood or a future not blighted by the touch of evil in their past, and his own chance to see them grow into that life, and the very different relationships he could have had with each of his sons.
Stupid in love? Oh I love that expression!!!
It's really the only way to describe both the depths and the ridiculousness of my affection for those boys, especially given how they're, you know, fictional & stuff. Or so I'm told.
(I was hard pressed to describe that particular expression on Dean's face. Sometimes I think to hard, and I can't quite manage it.) I think that expression also includes boundless love for Sam, and maybe a little regret too, that the little brother innocence cannot possibly last.
It is a hard expression to pin down, because there is so much there on his face in that instant before the fade-to-black. Show is very articulate with its silences.
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Date: 2008-04-09 03:45 am (UTC)I actually haven't seen this one in a while, so I guess here's my excuse. I did, however, recently watch "Houses of the Holy" again (ouch, my little geek heart!) & given Sam's revelation in that episode to us & to Dean that he is a praying man, I suppose he could be genuinely pissed here. While he's not necessarily Catholic, I'm pretty comfortable assuming that it's the Judeo-Christian God Sam's praying to & he could easily take Dean's slapdash effort to represent Our Lady of Blatant Aliases as scorn for something that's important to him. Isn't there a similar bit of non-verbal "Dean! This is a church! Show some respect!" in "Hookman"?
Bad Dad-ers think John is an ass full stop, and they won't allow for any areas of grey. So if you get on that bandwagon in my mind, you can't deal in the ambiguities of the character.
Ah, you're right; that's not where I am at all. Show's stock in trade is grey areas & ambiguity & I would not have it any other way.
I think John was a bad dad but not a failed parent - which to me means he straddled the line between loving his boys and making bad choices for them. K'kathy said that he sacrificed his boys on the alter of revenge, which sums it up nicely.
I totally agree that he loved them & I do believe that when he made what I feel are mistakes that he either believed he was doing right by the boys or didn't see that there were any less painful ways to do what he felt he needed to do for them... but love & not meaning to cause any harm aren't always enough.
I really like the altar metaphor, offering up, however unwillingly, their chances at a childhood or a future not blighted by the touch of evil in their past, and his own chance to see them grow into that life, and the very different relationships he could have had with each of his sons.
Stupid in love? Oh I love that expression!!!
It's really the only way to describe both the depths and the ridiculousness of my affection for those boys, especially given how they're, you know, fictional & stuff. Or so I'm told.
(I was hard pressed to describe that particular expression on Dean's face. Sometimes I think to hard, and I can't quite manage it.) I think that expression also includes boundless love for Sam, and maybe a little regret too, that the little brother innocence cannot possibly last.
It is a hard expression to pin down, because there is so much there on his face in that instant before the fade-to-black. Show is very articulate with its silences.